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From: rsiatl! (John G. De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry laws around the nation
Keywords: legal
Date: 1 Dec 89 19:27:47 GMT


In georgia, the process for getting a carry permit is simplicity personified.
My wife just got hers and I plan to do so this week.

Simply call the sherrif's office in the county you live and ask for information
on getting a concealed weapon permit.  they'll tell you where to go and how
much money to bring.  You have to provide a portion of the fee in the form
of a money order and the rest in cash.  The money order apparently goes to
the FBI or whomever does the background check.  They take your fingerprints
after you fill out a form.  Assuming your background checks out, you
should get your carry permit in about 6 weeks.

The only bad part is all the places that Georgia laws says the permit
does not cover.  Most any place you'd want to carry one as a matter
of fact.  Nontheless, I'd rather plead confusion over the law than to
have to defend a permit-less carry rap.

73 john

From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Rental ranges in Atlanta, GA (Was: Bullet Stop)
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access

$$$ (Jack Schudel) writes:

##I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the Bullet Stop closed a few
##months ago.  A damn shame.  A great bunch of guys <...>
#Well shucks.  I was planning to go there in a few weeks.
#Are there any other rental ranges in the Atlanta area that are reasonably
#well equipped (and priced)?  I am in the market for a "social" piece,
#and really believe in the "try before you buy" approach.

Gee, that was news to me too (Bullet Stop's closing.)  I'm trying to
confirm the situation with the owners.  Another place that rents
guns is "On Target" on Cobb Parkway.  Not a bad range.

BTW, headline news last night was that a Mercedes towed to one of the
yuppy Benz dealers because it would not start was found to have about
2 lbs of C-4 under it.  The bomber had botched the connection to the
ignition..  The Benz belonged to the owner of the Bullet Stop.
Today it was reported that he had been shot at and hit in the arm.
Someone's obviously not terribly pleased with this fellow ;-)


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Rental ranges in Atlanta, GA (Was: Bullet Stop)
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access

I wrote:

#BTW, headline news last night was that a Mercedes towed to one of the
#yuppy Benz dealers because it would not start was found to have about
#2 lbs of C-4 under it.  The bomber had botched the connection to the
#ignition..  The Benz belonged to the owner of the Bullet Stop.
#Today it was reported that he had been shot at and hit in the arm.
#Someone's obviously not terribly pleased with this fellow ;-)

Some more followup on this.  The local yellow media reported last night
that Paul LaVista, owner of The Bullet Stop, is being investigated by
the BATF for alledgedly, get this now, attempting to buy 20 AR-15s
from a Colt salesman while Colt had them withdrawn from the market!
One ponders what is supposed to be illegal about trying to buy
perfectly legal firearms (yes, we've stopped all "assault" weapon
bans in Ga.)  Maybe the yellow media will have more details tonight.

Ain't it amazin' how when they get you down they just keep grinding?
>>I'd<< be buying a one-way ticket to outer mongolia right about now :-)


From: John De Armond
Subject: NRA Voting Members - Emergency Announcement
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Followup-To:    talk.politics.guns

[MODERATOR: rec.guns folks, I'm passing this along to the group for its
informational content, but I request that followup discussion go to t.p.g.]

If you are an NRA voting member and have not yet sent your ballot in,
please DO NOT vote for Michael Kindberg of Georgia.

Kindberg is on Neil Knox's slate and until this Sunday, March 1st is on the
board of the Georgia Sports Shooters Association, the state NRA affiliate.

Kindberg has joined with some of the "old guard" and has apparently cut a
deal with Georgia Govenor Zell Miller to "compromise" and pass
an instant registration bill.  In return for this "compromise", we
are being inflicted even as I write with a trigger lock bill that will
open any gun owner in Georgia to criminal prosecution if  his gun is
used in a crime even if the gun has been stolen.  This bill was
strongarmed out of committee today by Gov Miller and the Atlanta metro
axis led by HCI Board member Mayor Manard Jackson.

As a result of this treason, the state of Georgia may end up this legislative
session with TWO gun control bills on the book, both bearing the nominal stamp
of approval of the GSSA!!!

An emergency general meeting of the GSSA has been called for this Sunday,
March 1st where, membership willing, the old board will be kicked out
and a new, no compromise board elected.

The no-compromise faction of GSSA, which represents the overwhelming
percentage of members according to telephone polls, is supporting
another Georgian, Mr William E. Krilling for the NRA national board.
Bill has been instrumental in organizing the effort to defeat local
waiting period and air gun ban legislation in the Columbus, Ga area.

Again, Please DO NOT vote for Mike Kindberg and please DO VOTE for
Bill Krilling.

Please note that though I am a member of the core resistance group who has
organized the overthrow effort,  I am posting as a personal opinion and am
not representing GSSA.  After Sunday, it may be another matter.

Sorry for the short notice but this has been a week that will live in infamy.

Thank you and wish us luck.

From: John De Armond
Subject: Gun Control Debacle in Georgia
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

Dear Gun Rights Activists:

Following is a letter recently mailed to the referenced parties in the
NRA.  I have waited over two weeks to write this letter in an effort
to purge some of the anger over the events of the last month in Georgia.
An explanation of the events leading up to this letter follows.
This is a sad time for NRA members and gun owners of Georgia.

March 24, 1992

Mr. James Jay Baker
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. Baker,

I just received another solicitation for money for the PVF, a
solicitation that arrived before my previous check even cleared the
bank.  That check will be my last.  After the experiences of
the last month here in Georgia, I hang my head in shame to call
myself an NRA member.  I am referring, of course to the NRA backed
bills currently under consideration in the State Senate that would
impose an instant registration (you can use the euphemism "instant
check" if you like.  I'll call it what it is.) on the citizens of
Georgia and the so-called "trigger lock" bill.

Compounding my disgust at this business-as-usual Cassidy-style compromise
are the actions of the Board of Directors of the Georgia Sports Shooting
Association in fighting an effort by a group of us hard-liners to prevent
the organization from going on the record in support of any gun control
bill.  At the special meeting I got an abject lesson in what happens when
one side has the guns (in the form of police) and the other does not.
What I saw was the good old boys willing to trample anyone and
anything to remain in power.  Well, they managed to stay in power
at least for the moment.  I wonder what they'll be in command of in
a year.  The hard-liners, who were called everything from Hitler on
down, were the ones who took GSSA from its cozy, closed shooting club
status to a multi-thousand member political force.  These thousands of
people did not join GSSA to hear about High Power competition or to have
their dues used to sponsor gun control bills.  They joined for one
reason - to fight gun control at ever juncture.  Viewing the floor of
the convention center covered with membership cards after this meeting
was a stark indicator of the damage these cronies have wrecked.

If you keep such records, you will notice that I've been an NRA
member about 3 years. You'll further note that I've responded to almost
every solicitation for funds to date.  I've been a second amendment
activist for better than 20 years.  I joined the NRA when it
looked like Cassidy and his cowards were on their way out.  Little
did I know that what replaced them was to be another bunch who simply
uses different words to say the same things - compromise.  Instead of
fighting Brady last year, you offered up that yellow bellied Staggers
bill and promoted it as the next best thing since sliced bread.
Then you support a Georgia Instant Registration bill as a "compromise."
A compromise against what?  We have little to fear on the national
level this election year and nothing to fear in Georgia and yet you
compromise.  Then to add insult to injury, NRA national steps in
and threatens to de-certify GSSA if we kick the compromisers out.
(A copy of the letter is enclosed.) I wonder, was the destruction of the
GSSA is really worth preserving the status quo of the Bill Davis bunch?

Where do you suppose I can find a gun organization that
understands the meaning of the Second Amendment and the meaning of
the term "No Damn Compromise?"

My NRA membership, as well as my family's will expire this year
and will not be renewed.  In the meantime, please do not ever
again solicit me for money.  I'll continue to fight as a gun
activist but if I have to say the word NRA, it will be spit out
like a spoonful of alum.


John De Armond

CC: Wayne La Pierre

Why this letter:

About a month and a half ago I was contacted by the Cobb County coordinator
of GSSA, the NRA state affiliate.  He told me that there was a possibility
of an instant registration bill coming before the Ga congress this
year and amazingly enough, with GSSA's sponsorship.  I was stunned.
Last year, the Citizens for Safe Government, a no-compromise organization
formed to fight county waiting periods, invaded the GSSA at its annual
meeting and took it over.  Previous to that, GSSA had been the typical
cozy, closed NRA shooting club with little political clout.  After the
takeover and after the work of a dedicated group of volunteers who worked
every gun show and outdoor sporting event in the state, the membership
rose from perhaps 300 to well over 3000.  This membership was for the
most part activist and could be mobilized in a moment's notice.  We have
been 100% effective in stopping gun control in the State of Ga.

I attended a meeting of fellow hardliners chaired by George Hill, the
GSSA secretary and Executive Director.  George filled us in on what
was happening.  GSSA's president, Bert Collins had met with Gov.
Zell Miller and had agreed to support a bill that would institute an
instant registration system in Georgia.  George told us that the only
way to stop this action, apparently supported by many of the Board,
was to call a special meeting and kick the Board out.  In order to
do that, a new set of Bylaws would have to be implemented.
A quick petition campaign was organized and in less than a week,
the signatures of more than the 10% required to call the meeting was gathered.

The meeting was held in the Clayton County Civic Center.  Fatal mistake.
The manager of the facility was apparently in cahoots with the prez
and had police on hand.  This fellow stated at the beginning of the
meeting that he would have the police eject anyone not following the
directions of the prez.  He then proceeded to the control booth
where he cut off the microphones almost every time one of our side tried
to speak.  Abject lesson in what happens when one side has all the guns.

Bert Collins opened the meeting but refused to call it to order or to
recognize Roberts rules as specified in the bylaws.  He conducted a
two hour tirade of character assasination against George Hill.  He
turned the meeting into a lynching of George.  The issue of sponsoring
a gun control bill was barely touched.   Unfortunately George played
into their hands by refusing to give a financial report to the board
before the meeting, getting caught in a lie when he did get the mike and
by not presenting his case when they finally gave him 5 minutes to talk.
He instead engaged in petty sniping with Bert.  The end result was that
the reorganization was rejected by the members and GSSA is sponsoring
gun control bills.

I say "bills" because while we were organizing the recall campaign,
another gun control bill, the so called "trigger lock" bill, reared its
ugly head in the house.  This bill would hold gun owners CRIMINALLY liable
if an underage person misused his gun even if the kid broke in to get it.
George and a few other of us asked around and found that GSSA had done
nothing to stop this hideous bill (text available to interested parties.)
A letter to the editor in Monday's Atlanta Constipation (the leading
gun control organ in the state) from Bert Collins explains why.  GSSA is
apparently also sponsoring THIS bill.

One of the major influences to the members at this meeting was a letter
from NRA threatening to de-certify the club if it changed its charter
or held elections at the special meeting.  Bill Davis (outgoing NRA board
member) is one of the good old boys with lots of friends at NRA national.
I suspect (it was almost admitted as such) that Bill called in a marker
and got National to write this letter.  It was reported that Bill, when
it looked like the recall would work, had formed another gun club of about
25 members called the Georgia Gun Owners Association and tried to get NRA to
pull GSSA's sanction and award it to GGOA.  Markers apparently would not
buy this one so it failed.  Even more interesting was the report that only
life members in this organization would be allowed to vote on
board members but the board had to approve life memberships.  Screwy, huh.

I learned several lessons from this debacle:

*	The guys with the guns always win.  Had the cops not been there, we
	could have physically wrested the stage from the Bert bunch.
	This is a lesson that should not be lost on people who waffle on the
	Second Amendment.

*	Even people motivated by righteousness are corruptable by power.
	I remember when Bert was the most radical gun rights advocate in
	CSG.  Staying in office became more important than his principles
	so he sold out.  Something not to forget when examining incumbents.

*	Oratory skills can lead even the most hardline people around by the
	nose.  Bert and Bill are skilled politicians.  I watched as a crowd
	of hard liners did an about face and accepted his bilge hook, line and
	sinker.  I understand fully, now, why slime like the current crop
	of presidential candidates can get elected.  I also understand why
	so many people believe the Brady Bilge.  Say it enough and it
	becomes the truth.

*	The appearance of impropriety really does matter to people.
	George Hill, the person who has led the buildup of CSG/GSSA for the
	last 3 or 4 years, was thoroughly destroyed by the Bert Bunch
	because of the reasonable act of witholding the finances from
	what looked like a traitorous board until the special meeting.
	Though George's action was perfectly legitimate under the
	circumstances, the Bert Bunch was able to make it look sinister
	and then never gave George a chance to defend himself.  The
	members in attendance allowed themselves to be led around by
	the noses and seemed to forget all of George's good work.
	Politics is not a place for those who act their conciences.

*	Never underestimate the underhandedness of your enemy.  We made that
	fatal mistake.  Our strategy was based on a board meeting conducted
	by Robert's Rules.  We did not allow for the board throwing out the
	rules and using armed men to enforce it.  I had (idealistic, as it
	turned out) hopes that this matter could be resolved without
	anyone getting personal so that something could be salvaged.

I don't know what the future holds for gun owners of Georgia.  The
hard liners are in disarray.  George Hill, the former leader
of this group, is pretty much discredited by his performance during
the meeting and no one else seems to have the energy to step forward and
take his place.  If we survive this session of congress, perhaps we can
reorganize in time for next year.

I'm posting this so that activists in other states can learn from our
wounds.  Don't let it happen to you.


(Please disseminate this widely but only in its entirety.  We now have no
other way to reach GSSA members and inform them of what really happened.
Bert has already put out a newsletter bragging about his victory.)

(Copyright 1992 John De Armond.  All rights reserved.)

From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South. (C.T. Teo) writes:

#Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???

#Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
#in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
#carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
#comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
#possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???

Only in Kennesaw, Ga.  This Atlanta bedroom community is about 3 miles from my
house.  The mayor sponsored the non-binding ordinance in retalliation
to the Morton Grove, Il handgun ban.  Though the law is non-binding
and no penalties are attached, it did have its effect.  The burglary
count in the city went from 62 the previous year (average) to zero the
year after the law.  It has dithered near zero ever since despite the
massive growth (Cherokee county has become the fastest growth county in
the state) and despite being adjacent to Cobb county where violent crime
is significant - at least in some parts of town.

The crime rate outside the metro Atlanta area is practically non-existant.
Indeed it can be said that crime is practically non-existant anywhere
MARTA (public transit) does not run.

Open carry is not legal but unless you're in the parking lot of a bank
in metro Atlanta, not many people will give you a second look.  I think
nothing of carrying my pistols in the open while going to or from
the range.  I've heard that will automatically call  out the SWAT team
in other parts of the country.

#GEORGIA here I come...........

Georgia is a pretty good state for firearms owners.  We have a non-
discretionary CCW law which means if you don't have a record, you must
be granted a CCW; we defeated the only waiting period ordinances
passed in a couple of the metro counties; and by the skin of our teeth
and despite the efforts of the state NRA, we killed a trigger lock
bill this year.  Our biggest problem now is Gov. Zell Miller who, as you
saw at the DNC, thinks he is a Kennedy-in-waiting.  He and some of the
state NRA org officers got together and almost passed the trigger lock
and a waiting period law.  With the redistricting this year I think
we'll be in good shape.

I think the atmosphere in Tennessee is a bit better despite there not being
a nondiscretionary CCW permit but Georgia is not bad.  Any Southern
State is pretty good for that matter.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South. (Mr. X) writes:

##The larger cities are not the case.  In fact, I have heard on the net
##from some problems with a police chief who has imposed the policy of
##arresting and charging citizens with valid CCW permits for illegal
##carry of a firearm.

#	Is this person leaving himself or his department and perhaps even the
#	state open to the possibility of a VERY LARGE civil action, not to
#	mention criminal charges for false arrest?

I posted the original report.  The county is Cobb and the chief is
named Hightower.  At the time an internal power struggle spawned by
some top officials turning traitor and secretly agreeing with Gov
Miller to pass a trigger lock and a waiting period bill destroyed
the state NRA organization, we were preparing a suit.  We had two
victims, two Cobb county officers ready to testify as to their
instructions and volunteer legal counsel.  Unfortunately the
power struggle got in the way so the case is off.  For now it will
depend on someone with the necessary money to pursue a suit
by him/her self.

A rather long narrative of this situation was posted in t.p.g several
months ago by me.  I might be able to find it in my archives if anyone
is REALLY interested.

To the extent that many police ignore any law they think they can get
away with breaking and to the extent that a private citizen must spend
real money to bring and prosecute such suits, the chief IS somewhat


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

IA80024@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Nicholas C. Hester) writes:

#At night it might also be a good idea to turn the dome light on to
#illuminate the interior of the vehicle.  This would allow the officer
#to see everything you are doing.  I've never done this in practice,
#what does everyone else think?

No, I would not.  The cop is the agressor.  Become non-threatening but
don't make his job of stealing money from you any easier.

RE: CCW.  I would not advise telling the cop about a CCW/Gun unless
the gun is in view and/or the cop is going to search you.  There are
plenty of cops out there who will harrass you and even take your gun,
CCW or not.  For example, here in Cobb County, GA, it is the official
policy of the Cobb county pigs, er, cops, to take all concealed firearms,
regardless of a CCW.  Illegal?  Sure but some citizen is going to have
to file suit to stop it.  Cops don't have to obey the law unless
forced.  If your gun is an especially nice one, it might just disappear
off into the void.

During my only stop since getting a CCW, before I came to a halt,
I simply put my pistol in a secret compartment behind the seat.
Assuming you're not stupid enough to allow a cop to search your car
without a warrant, the cop would have no legal way of finding the gun.

If you ever have a gun taken as part of a traffic stop, I suggest
writing at least the model and brand on the traffic ticket while you're
signing it.  Serial number too, if you know it.  this is in addition to any
property receipt you might get.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South. (PAUL N. RITTER) writes:

##During my only stop since getting a CCW, before I came to a halt,
##I simply put my pistol in a secret compartment behind the seat.
##Assuming you're not stupid enough to allow a cop to search your car
##without a warrant, the cop would have no legal way of finding the gun.

#      YOU'RE WRONG!!!!
#What you forgot to mention is that you have the right to deny a search of your
#vehicle, but the police have the right to impound your vehicle until they can
#get the warrant (provided that they have sufficient probable cause) and then
#tear it apart. Your "hidden compartment" would be found. They can take as much
#time searching you vehicle as they need/want.
#               Trust me on this.....
#               --Paul

No, I'm not going to trust you on this and no I am not wrong.  I am quite
aware of how far cops are allowed to push the Constitution these days.
In the state of Georgia and therefore in my case, my CCW makes my gun
in the car legal.  Read that.  L-E-G-A-L.  What I am defending myself
against are those pigs such as work for the Cobb County Police who
directly violate GA's CCW law and confiscate LEGALLY CARRIED weapons.
This is not hearsay.  Our state NRA org was preparing to file suit
against Cobb County when an internal dispute split the organization and
gutted the treasury.  We had a victim and we had two Cobb county
police ready to testify as to their instructions from Chief Hightower.
I am also defending myself against those pigs who take guns they
like for their own use.  As an ex-field deputy, I've head full time
cops bragging about such thefts.

In the context of a law abiding CCW'd citizen being stopped for a traffic
bust, there is no probable cause for anything more than a ticket.
Unless of course, you believe that cops should arbitrarily be allowed
to search cars for the good of society or for whatever they can
steal, er, confiscate for their department.  Absent probable cause and
absent consent from me, you will NOT legally search my car.  Yes you can
inconvenience me by holding my car for a period of time.  But you might
also have to confront the fact that your stop was taped and you got
caught lying.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Was: "Re: CCW in Virginia"
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

blkcat!Kwong.Wong@uunet.UU.NET (Kwong Wong) writes:

#Also, with the exception of Law Enforcement, citizens when confronted
#with a potentially deadly threat are obligated to RETREAT from the
#threat and only if further retreat is not possible are they allowed to
#use deadly force for defence.  Guess that means guard must run when

That is highly state-dependent.  It most surely is NOT the case here in
Georgia.  The law specifically says a citizen does NOT have to flee
possible threats.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Gun laws in Georgia
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South. (Mark Hall) writes:

#  I just found out yesterday that I will be spending the next six months
#working just outside of Atlanta. Last night on the news they reported
#that the latest FBI stats put Atlanta at the top of the most crime per
#capita list.
# Traveling around Texas I have a good feel for when I can and cannot
#justify carrying my 9mm even though we have no CCW law. What about
#Georgia? Can an out of stater with his family 'get by' if found to be
#honestly carrying for defense?

First off, about the murder rate.  The overwhelming majority of the
murders in Georgia occur in one of about 3 or 4 of the worst black
ghettos in Atlanta and most are drug-related.  Unfortunately one of
the worst (Techwood) is adjacent to Georgia Tech which makes going to
the campus library after dark somewhat iffy. If you stay away
from these areas in particular and outside the I-285 perimeter
in general, violent crime is almost nonexistant.  If you'd like to
contact me via E-mail and tell me where you're working, I can make
some recommendations about where to stay.  Traffic will be a more
immediate concern than crime.

About carrying without a permit.  You can carry a loaded gun without
a permit in your car if it is either fully exposed or in your
glove box.  Some of the cops are real chickenshit.  There was a case
a couple of years ago in which a guy got arrested (and it was upheld)
for carrying "concealed" without a permit. because a piece of paper
partially covered the barrel of his gun laying open on the car seat.
If you carry open, make SURE it is FULLY open.

You should also know that in Cobb County (I-75 north of the I-285
perimter) Public Safety Director Hightower has directed his county
cops to confiscate ALL guns found during a traffic stop regardless
of whether it is legally carried or not.  Our gun rights group
was preparing to sue Hightower and the county a couple of years ago
and had a couple of cobb county cops ready to testify as to their
orders when an internal political dispute destroyed the organization.
My advice is to stay out of Cobb County or if you have to come,
leave your gun in the trunk or at home.  Or do as I do and carry
a ratty old gun not valuable enough to worry about losing.  Best
bet is to avoid Cobb County.  It's a shame the county is like that
because Kennesaw, the city where gun ownership is mandatory, is located
in Cobb County.


From: John De Armond
Subject: Re: Gun laws in Georgia
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South. () writes:

#You're forgetting the city of Atlanta's unconstitutional law barring
#concealed firearms within the city limits.  It's based on the one
#in New York, as I understand it.

there is no city law regarding concealed carry and there cannot be
under Ga's constitution.  Even Atlanta has to nominally obey
the constitutions.


From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Headsup to gun carriers in GA
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:58:29 -0500
Message-ID: <>

There is some history behind this that Bill might not be aware of.

There are some powerful people in Atlanta that absolutely and irrationally
hate this concealed carry law, mainly because of the way we (Citizens for
Safe Government, a grassroots organization formed literally over one
weekend in the early 90s when we learned that the NRA had sold us down the
road and was going to endorse a gun registration bill in the state house.)
got it through.

Ga has long had a concealed carry law but it sucked.  It precluded any
sort of carry except on the belt which meant that most folks, particularly
professionals who wore suits could not carry.  NRA's state liaison (can't
recall his name now) had blessed this law, at least as much as he could.
He'd been senile for years and cared little for the legislative process.

We found out about this NRA sellout about 6 weeks before an election.  We
decided to "get" those politicians who were behind it.  We also took over
the state NRA organization but that's another story.  We picked several
pols whom we considered vulnerable and went after them with every legal
technique we could come up with.  In particular, we wanted the former
mayor of Macon who was considered a shoe-in for the state senate.  The
repubs hadn't even bothered to qualify a candidate.

We qualified a 24 year old Ga Tech grad student on the last day of
qualifying.  On election eve we assaulted the mayor's district with
leaflets.  One side it said that the mayor wanted our guns and on the
other side it said that the mayor wanted our flag (The inner beltway typed
trying to remove the confederate battle emblem on the state flag was a hot
issue then.)  We figured that the flag issue would get those who didn't
care about guns and vice versa.  It worked like a charm.  We beat the
mayor by over 400 votes, a large majority in that district.

The night of the election we started getting threatening phone calls and
hangups at our headquarters.  Caller ID was very new then and they didn't
realize that we could see that the calls were coming from the Lt.
Governor's office.  Our prez dialed back and suggested they knock it off.
I think whomever answered the phone about choked :-)  Whomever hung up the
phone hit "speaker" instead and we were able to sit there for the next 15
or so minutes listening to them plot to get >US<.  Just a bunch of
citizens opposing the system.  Anyway, they were made aware that a tape
existed of that conspiracy, which ended that effort.

Anyway, after the election we got the modifications we wanted to the CCW
law passed.  Even though this all happened a long time ago (I believe it
was the election prior to Gingrich's contract with America), there are
still some very hard feelings in Atlanta.  Every so often the bureaucratic
thugs come up with a new idea to thwart the CCW law.  They'll have to be
slapped down again, I imagine.

Steve Wolf, you were talking earlier about making a difference.  This was
the time of my successful difference-making.  I literally put my business
on hold for 3 or 4 years to work for CSG.  Our tactics were so successful
that we became a powerhouse in state government.  We also had a major
impact on the Republican party nationally.  We (the board) had several
long meetings over food and drink with Gingrich.  I had several
opportunities to talk to him by myself, mostly about history instead of
politics.  He's probably the most fascinating person I've ever talked to.
Unfortunately he didn't have a clue about applied leadership.  Newt told
us that our successes in Ga caught the attention of the Republican leaders
and caused them to reconsider not taking gun owners for granted.  The rest
is history.

NB: for the usual suspects who claim that I make this stuff up (because
they can't comprehend any sort of personal success), google is your
friend.  I maintained a running commentary of happenings in
talk.politics.guns.  I used my name as my handle and as my
email and usenet address.

The public didn't yet know what the Internet (Enfant back then) was but
Usenet was still quite effective.  I certainly rattled some at the NRA
Palace.  I had either 3 or 4 calls from LaPierre himself begging me to
quit writing such nasty things about the NRA.  My response was that if
they'd quit doing such nasty things I'd not have anything to write about.


On 12 Jan 2005 10:46:32 -0800, "Steve V in FL" <>

>Bill, their reasoning doesn't make sense. If the use of the word
>"concealed" were that important, they would have put "Not to be
>concealed" somewhere. You could apply the same logic and get busted for
>having the thing loaded. Afterall, no where on the permit does it say
>"loaded", does it?

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